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WGT: Adding value to the people you lead with Alberto Gonzalez Otero [transcript]

Please enjoy this transcript of my conversation with Alberto Gonzalez Otero.


Alberto Gonzalez Otero from Just on purpose shares his views on the challenges managers face and how focusing on adding value to the people you lead can prevent you from becoming a micromanager.

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[00:00:00] Lech Guzowski: Well, hello there. Today, I'm talking to a chief purpose officer. If that's not one of the coolest job titles you can have, I really, really don't know. What is the person in question is. Alberto Gonzalez Otero who is a optimist leader and intrepreneur who believes in purpose as a driving force for positive change for leaders teams. And organization.

[00:00:26] Although we don't talk about purpose. We still have a fascinating discussion about leadership and the challenges that managers face specifically around the tendency of having to take authority control and micromanaging people. And we look at that situation, that phenomena, the behavior that happens in so many organizations.

[00:00:45] Through the lens of it potentially being driven by fear. The fair. Of if they don't do that, if they don't have that, that's not how they manage their people that might not be seen as doing their job.

[00:00:59] An alternative way is to focus on how you can add value to the people you lead by looking at things like, for example, purpose, values, beliefs, and how. Can you make it easier for people to grow and develop? Not just into that roles, but also as individuals, as human beings. Here's my conversation with Alberto Gonzalez Otero. Enjoy.

[00:01:27] like to start with my favorite ice breaker for, for these conversations. And that is to find out what was it that you dreamt of being when you were a little worried that you were going to be when you grow up?

[00:01:58] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: That's a great, that's a great question. And. Talk probably about this maybe later, but that's an I'm planning to write a book and that's going to be the title of the book as well. So that's funny. You asked me this, so I want it to be a pro pro professional football player. That's a, that was my, my dream.

[00:02:17] Lech Guzowski: Excellent. Excellent. I'm really glad that that's going to be the title of your book. That's really, that's amazing, but okay, so you want it to be a football player. Just before. And actually I can just see it. Now you're drinking out of a mug. That's got a picture of you and your little son and his football team on it.

[00:02:34] So you got into coaching. You didn't play, didn't come out as a, as a, as a football player as a career, but you go into coaching, not just football, but coaching in general. So I'm guessing there is a connection between what you're used to wanted to be, but what you're doing now,

[00:02:47] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: There, there is an, I did play, I did play many years and I almost got there, but but the enriched that level, so I was kind of like, semipro you want to call it that way, but but then, you know I still play now, now with the veterans, I'm too old to play with anyone else, but we play a quite special competition here in the, in the Netherlands, which is the classic veterans competition.

[00:03:10] We play against also veterans from IEX or spar teams that are quite well known and you know, playing, obviously the normal teams are playing the first division here. So it's quite a nice level. And, and I expected, you know, keep up with that. And I'm coaching kids as well. So I'm also in the same club where I play my, I have two boys, 11 and eight years old.

[00:03:33] And I've been coaching the eldest for for some years already. That's the one in the picture. But then this year I switched to the youngest and coaching, you know, eight year old kids team at this club. Yeah.

[00:03:45] Lech Guzowski: I think you saying that you played with veterans from AIX in some of the big names, it calling it a nice level. It's a massive understatement. That is a pretty decent level. I would say pretty good level. If you w if you were saying some semi-pro that you were very close to becoming a footballer, I'm assuming you were pretty, pretty damn good.

[00:04:05] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Yeah. You know, I, I think yeah, it is a good level. Let's put it that way. I think the speed is sometimes lacking in terms of if you're compared to younger teams. But yeah, it is, you have to play against people who played at quite this level as well, also profitable. I had different teams. And so, yeah, it's, it is it is a nice one, but still there are many people better than us.

[00:04:27] So and, and who reached the level? I wanted to reach when I was younger, but I didn't reach that point, but I always liked sports. I was good.

[00:04:37] at sports in general. My focus was more football, but I still enjoy, you know, doing some other sports as well. And I see sports and especially the team sports like football one of the biggest learning sources for me when it comes to business as well, and to work in, you know in teams and leading teams at companies because, you know, in the end they just kind of.

[00:04:58] And you learn so much about how to understand people, how to work with people and overcome challenges together after clear purpose things, things like that. But now I, you know, I basically work with with my clients.

[00:05:10] Lech Guzowski: I'm really glad you said that because I recently was, I was, I was actually just going to ask you whether you draw any inspiration from sports and the work that you do because I've grown up playing all sorts of sports, amateur level, or basically anything that where I could chase a bowl of whatever shape or size I was, I was interested and.

[00:05:29] I only find myself as the interesting thing. Even a couple of weeks ago, I was given a talk for product beats in, in Sweden, in Stockholm about teamwork. And I used three examples of from the sports world. He's Michael Jordan, Scotty Pippin the role of the liberal in a volleyball, as well as the old blacks, the New Zealand rugby team as great examples of variety of people and what everybody brings to the table.

[00:05:53] No matter what skill set they have, they are important in building a successful team. And it was such a fascinating, first of all, I loved delivering and creating a first base feedback was great because people could relate to all of them, at least one sports. Everybody knows Michael Jordan. A lot of people know about valley volleyball.

[00:06:10] Some people know about New Zealand rugby and so on. It's a fast, it's a fascinating element, as you said, two inspirations to draw from. But I'm curious, how did you go from being. Aiming to be a footballer to what you do now as a consultant, as a coach, how did that transition happen for you? Because obviously you already know there was interest in sports and you use the analogies.

[00:06:33] Was there something else in, in the, in the main, in the meantime that made you help that transition?

[00:06:38] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Yeah, definitely. You know You know, one of the things they happen is that at some point people around you start telling you that that's impossible or that's yes, the hobby and needed to focus on the studies and, you know, having a, a degree, you go to university and all that. And I talk sometimes in my workshops about my story, of course I shared. These, but you know, when you are younger, everyone tells you that you can do anything. Everything is possible when you say I'm going to be a football player. And then they w they tell you, yeah, you're going to be the next Messi, you know, and people encourage you to follow that path and to, you know to be good at that.

[00:07:16] But when you get older, this kind of. And people start telling you, no, that's not possible. You know, how many players, you know, it's so difficult, there's so many players. You're good, but yeah, still, you know, it is very impossible. And then you, it depends on your personality as well. I was a responsible person and I'm still, I think, but I tend to do what my parents told me to do.

[00:07:38] So that at some point I had to focus on my studies and I had opportunities I could pursue in the, in the football world, but I didn't because of, you know, to me in the end to my parents, mostly, it was most important to stay you and then my hometowns and go to the university there and get a bachelor's degree and a master's and all that.

[00:08:00] So that, that was probably, you know, one of the reasons that. The question is good. I reached that level or not. You never know. And maybe there's more probability that I would make it, but the question for me today still is I go yeah. If I had followed that. You know, maybe today I probably was doing also, I've seen me in a job or maybe working in, you know with sports clubs or consulting or coaching, you know, professional players, or I don't know something related to sports which I probably wouldn't enjoy as well, but you know, we are the result of the choices we make and I'm very happy with what I'm doing right now.

[00:08:37] And, and the, you know, the decisions that I had to make sometimes not because we were my own decisions, but sometimes my parents' decision as well made me who I am today.

[00:08:46] Lech Guzowski: Well, I'm glad that it made you who you are today because otherwise probably we wouldn't be talking pretty certain of that. If it wasn't that the choices that you made led you to, to do the work that you do, because that's how we connected. We got. Introduced by the lovely and one and only Sarah rather than thriller, because you work closely with Sarah on, on, on projects and we got to talk and, and th the, the topics that I think really resonated with me that you mentioned was around leadership which is of course, some of the, the, the work that you do.

[00:09:12] And specifically something that's been on my radar and often comes up in discussions that I have with either in my coaching session. Or in sessions within that kind of in a group setting. And that is how we used to promote and continue to promote people into leadership roles and that process. And one thing that I, I often observe is that we assume that somebody as an individual contributor, they are good, they've been doing their job and that they're good enough to get promoted up.

[00:09:39] They've been in it for long enough. They're good enough to do that job. So we're going to promote them to a manager position. We'll have to manage people who used to do the job that they used to do. And that's, that's fine. But the piece that's missing for me is that's part of the assumption. The other element that is so important is how to lead people because all of a sudden, they just don't manage work anymore.

[00:10:03] They should also look after the people under them and how often that. training. However you want to call that that's missing that people don't get that, or maybe we don't even assess leaders based on that capability. And that's that piece that's missing for me. And I'm wondering what, what do you think about what have you observed in that sense and how we promote people?

[00:10:23] How do we kind of get people into first time leadership roles?

[00:10:26] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Yeah. So, no, that's, that's a very good point. In many cases I'm the same in all cases, of course, but in many cases we tend to promote those high-performing individuals that are very good at certain job. So for example, If someone is very good at accounting or a, you know, in sales or marketing, you know you know, we tend to promote that person before then anyone else, because that's kind of a, a reward you know, to his or her performance.

[00:10:53] The problem is that the skillset that you need, the talents you, you need to have to lead people into, to manage. Very different in most of the cases than the ones that you need to have as a sales representative, for example, as an accountant or as a marketing specialist, for example. So one point.

[00:11:12] Getting the training is great. And many companies have some training programs for management, many companies don't I never had a management training program and I was managing like in people, myself. But the, you know, it depends how you are and who you are and what your skills are and your strengths.

[00:11:27] Maybe you are not, you know, kind of made to lead people and maybe you could use your skills and your talent to do something else. That could be more, much more value to. The organization or your team or, or, you know, yourself as well and give you more energy. And, and that's the thing that, you know, makes me to the second point.

[00:11:47] The problem is that their reward is to get to management. We see steel management as a kind of, you know, we talk about higher levels, right. Going up the ladder and, and that's the thing that's. a bit as the only way to grow within an organization. So that's why people tend to try to be manager after spending some years doing some, some work.

[00:12:11] And I think that's the word approach. You know, we get managers or people into management positions who are not really seemingly good at managing people or leading people or, or, you know, And again, you can help them with the training, but sometimes, you know, it's better that they Excel at something else why you don't create a different career path that is also rewarding for these people.

[00:12:32] Also more paid than, you know, in terms of money as well and opportunities for career purposes, but that is not necessarily in management positions. And then, you know, you, you can focus on people who are. Have those management skills and maybe they are less of a high-performance I think, you know, there could be also good performance, but maybe they are not the highest ones and talking to all sports, you know, I, I also share some content about this some time ago, but.

[00:13:02] It is like a football team, right. Who make normally the best coaches from people who were professional football players. Right. If you think about pep Guardiola, urine cup you know, Pitino or many examples now none of those were strikers, right? None of those were the ones scoring most of the goals.

[00:13:23] No. Very good. That's what they did, but they made the others played better and they helped the team be successful. And that's, I think a big component that make a great leaders and that's why they, they perform so well as a coach. And maybe we don't have so many strikers as a very you know, good coaches right now in the, in those first divisions of different, different cancers.

[00:13:49] Right.

[00:13:49] Lech Guzowski: Amazing. As you, as, as you were talking been trying to think of footballers who became coaches, who are coaches now, and to challenge what you just said, that strike. Coaches and I'm actually, I'm finding it difficult. The only strike that I can think of that has become a decent coach is now somewhere in a, in a, in a smaller team is a Philippe Zacky Italian strong.

[00:14:14] Very very selfish type of plate, not a selfish person, one of those poachers who just needs a split second, just the ball to drop. He doesn't go back and create the chances. Now he's there in the right place at the right time, that type of Stryker. And he's got some successes I'm thinking of generic midfielder Italian, one very, very hardworking.

[00:14:35] The Eastern dish. I'm definitely going to, I'm going to, I'm going to investigate that further. Cause I love that analogy, but yes, you're right. The high-performance is that, that's what, that's what we tend to do. We look at people who are performing well and he said, okay, we're going to promote them into a role.

[00:14:49] Assuming there'll be able to continue to perform. Based on the job that they've been doing and also do the element of leading people. And, and I think that's the separation that for me helps a lot because I say specifically managed people. And when I say that, I mean, manage the workload, being a to-do list manager of sorts and manage the work whilst the leading element.

[00:15:11] That's, that's the bit that's missing. And you just said, yes, we can give people training, but it's not something that. It's one workshop and it will be done. It's something that needs to happen over months and years. It's an additional skill set that needs to be developed. That I, again, think that is missing.

[00:15:29] What do you think that means? How does that manifest that when you've got that separation, when you do perform and promote high performers into such roles without the leadership element, what are the sort of let's call them side effects of that?

[00:15:43] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: You know, one off one of them is especially for first time managers or try, you know, trying to be leaders is that they tend to be very authoritative and they trend tend to micromanage people and control people. So they kind of compensate the lack of experience as manager. With those, those things that, you know, trying to control everything to be on top of everything and trying to know everything as well.

[00:16:09] Because they are now managers, right. They should know everything and they should decide everything. And that's a common mistake I experienced in my career as well. And probably I did the same mate. The first time I start started monitoring people a bit, but. You know, that's very common, you know, people they have a bit of a lack of confidence.

[00:16:25] It's the first time they manage people and they try to overcome that with, with showing more control and more authority. And then you get those people in those teams that are. Manage, or in this case more managed by this kind of people that they don't have a good time, right. Because nobody likes to be micromanaged or controlled so much or being told what to do every time or not giving, you know, given the flexibility.

[00:16:52] To come up with idea. So with decisions, you know, make decisions on their own, things like that, which I think those things are the qualities of a good leader that, you know the leader needs to be. There has a role, which is very, very important. And of course he, or she can make decisions as well. And sometimes they need to make decisions on their own, but it is also good qualities of a good leader.

[00:17:17] To try to give responsibility to people and trust people and to make decisions on their own and to fail and to learn from those failures and your role is there to be there to support that. And the problem with these things of having, or promoting people that not necessarily have the right skills for the job.

[00:17:38] Is that you, you don't get so many of those with these skills. And they tend to do the, the, the opposite stuff and, and that damages the whole spirit of the team, you know, and, and, you know, you have cases of people leaving the company or people that?

[00:17:54] are not happy basically. And at work because of this now.

[00:17:58] Lech Guzowski: Do you think that the, the, the managers first-line managers doesn't really matter who are going down the path of trying to compensate the lack of experience with authority or micromanagement and things like that, do you think. That might be fear-driven. And what I mean by that is that there's a fear that if they don't manage people, manage their workloads, let trust people and give people the responsibility.

[00:18:25] And they delegate that they might be seen as not doing their job. And they are afraid of that, of being seen as, okay. So what's the point of having this person, if, if they delegate all the work and they give the responsibility, what are they doing? Do, do we need them in the company? So that fear of potentially not being.

[00:18:42] Being valuable, useful, and potentially losing their job. Do you think that plays a big part?

[00:18:47] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And, you know, we need to look at the culture of the company as well. Right. And see how that is and how other minor years and leaders lead people. And, and, you know if there's a bit more like old-fashioned management versus you know, more than leadership, you know, that's normally some money or tend to do, especially the first time managers tend to do with other people. And replicate some stuff as well. So if they see people doing that within the company, then they will kind of try to do the same thing. But yeah, it is, it is I think it's depends depending on the organization, the culture of the organization. And, and yeah, that's, I think what you you will have different types of management or leadership, depending on how people work there.

[00:19:35] What's the culture. Yeah. '

[00:19:36] Lech Guzowski: cause I always do wonder that. And I I've come across this a number of times where I'm not sure that person, why, what what's, what's causing the micromanage. Is it. And I often find that even this comes up with now will a lot of organizations who worked remotely for the past 12 to 18 months as a result, obviously, of what what's been going on in the world.

[00:19:58] And that asking people to come back to the. And some, some organizations, quite a few suddenly seeing the fact that people have been working remotely as they haven't been productive. And yet, of course that must have been the case, but a lot of organizations that I've been seeing, blaming a lot of things on people being remote.

[00:20:17] And I'm wondering how much of that is actually in the need to pull people back into the office full time, not even hybrid mode in hybrid mode. How much of that is, again, that element of controlling. People and their work that people do rather than just seeing, okay. There's an issue here that we actually masking that we should really be addressing.

[00:20:37] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Yeah, no, indeed. And what you mentioned before, you know, it is, it can be based on fear as well. Right? And the lack of trust is also can be based on, or the original source of that could be fear. And the fear could be, you know, lack of confidence in your skills as a leader. It could be you know, competition as well.

[00:20:56] Like, you know, if I. If I'm not on top of things, I don't make all the decisions. If I don't show these kind of wrong leadership, my opinion then someone else is going to take my job. But in the day, I think, especially with the remote. I think working remotely since 2011, 2012, and for different companies as well or hybrid.

[00:21:13] So this situation for me was wasn't a new, but for many people gloss, and this clearly show that, you know, you can actually trust people to work from anywhere. And the people who don't work that much or who are less productive or, you know they probably did the same when they were at the office.

[00:21:30] Right. Or maybe you did not do that much, but it is the same people. Right. But I think the pandemic that. Most of the people. And there are some research saying, you know, okay. That people get more productive in general with remote work and work from home. You know, it showed that you can delegate staff.

[00:21:47] You can give this responsibility to people with a clear walls. I care purpose too. Okay. What we need to do, what they need to do when and why and all these things. And if that's clear, you know, people that, you know, people, you know, like to, to achieve things and to deliberate with work. And I think that.

[00:22:05] Normally doing it. But then yeah, it also showed how some leaders and now we are seeing it again with okay. Back to the office and we all need to have some companies say, yeah, you all need to go back to the office. Why, you know, full-time, you know, why or also trying to come up with a perfect policy, right?

[00:22:21] Like three days a week in the office, two days from home. And I think that's totally wrong because not everyone is. and not every task is the same. So for something. You know, nothing can replace the face-to-face. I always say that, you know online, we miss so much, you know, we, those spontaneous conversations going for a coffee or a silent, you know, after the meeting finishes, then we, we keep on talking and then maybe we have the best idea.

[00:22:46] Right. And these things are not there in the online. Well, because you plan everything. Okay. It's half an hour or one hour meeting, and then that's, that's it. We don't have that those kinds of conversations, but then for, you know preparing a presentation, if you need to present at an event or internally or whatever, maybe it's good that you are on your own and not in the office, because then you will get distracted or to work on reports and analysis of something.

[00:23:11] That's also maybe a better place to. To be working on. So why we try to come up with one solution that helps everyone or works for everyone, which I think is impossible instead of again, giving the flexibility to decide on your own. Okay. What kind of. First what's my personality because programmers, for example, they don't need to probably, they don't like to be at the office, run by people, maybe some of them do, but you know, yeah.

[00:23:40] They don't enjoy that, that much and crazy distraction and they prefer to be on their own. But then they're all of the leader there is to make sure that at least, you know, sometimes, you know, you organize something for them to come to the office, each other team-building activities, things like that, that support.

[00:23:56] Their work in the end. So yeah, again, given the responsibility to decide on your own. Okay. What kind of personality I have? What gives me energy as a person working with people or, or not working with people and then try to balance that. I think the keyword is balanced. It's not like, you know, The office is the best solution, fully remote is the best solution or, you know, kind of three into two and three or whatever.

[00:24:21] It's more like, you know, find the balance that works for you and for your company, for your team, depending on who you are, what gives you energy with rains, you and also what kind of tasks you need to to do, you know, what kind of job do you need to get?

[00:24:37] Lech Guzowski: I think the, the difficulty that we have with this, I would associate more with the, the wider, the human condition, if you want to call it and our need to try and put things into boxes. And that's how we make sense of things. That's how we control things. And I think that's just part of who we are and that transfers into.

[00:24:57] The world of work, because that's what people leading organizations, that's what they want to do. PTP and people leading teams. That's what they want to do. And that's why we've got, we, they go back to the office. We're either work remotely. We, or we do a hybrid, whatever other approaches to process that we want to implement, but none is better than the other.

[00:25:15] As you said, it's based on individuals, but if you try and give everyone. Each individual in your organization that freedom to decide, it just creates a lot more potential discussions, problems, challenges, opportunities, one way or another. So it's moderate. You have to deal with everyone individually. And that, that means that takes more time.

[00:25:38] That takes more resources. And I think that's why we tried to group people, group departments, group teams, and that's why we have this dilemma. I'm pretty certain, this is, this is a conversation for a whole, for whole news, a separate podcast of its own. So I don't necessarily want to go down that route, but I think it's a fascinating discussion and something that is definitely worth exploring, but we'll also urge everyone who wants to go remote or who wants to go into and back to the office of why is that why they really true motivations?

[00:26:04] And as you said, give people the opportunity to voice their preference and listen to that preference. Those don't just act, create the illusion of dialogue or discussion. To get people points, people's points of view and then do whatever you want to do. Just skip that step, you know, just do whatever we want to do because that's the illusion of choice.

[00:26:23] Isn't it.

[00:26:23] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Yeah, I, you know, and again, you need to also that's I think totally the role of the leader, right? So to feel how people are doing and to check in with people and see what's the best for everyone at individual level and see how you can actually bring that together. To put it into words for the, for the whole team and to have a successful and strong high-performing team.

[00:26:44] And the same thing, you know, you've got to the person who is working remotely. Most of the time doesn't come to the office. How is this person, you know, how's her the kind of profile, what gives this personality or this, and, and if you know that person. Enjoys being with people. Well, there's something wrong going on there.

[00:27:04] Right? So you need to check in with this person and ask this person to come to the office maybe a bit more often. And that's something that you need to kind of in a way force people to do, because otherwise yeah. Isolated, And then the other way around, you know, some people maybe are in the office too much and they don't get their work done.

[00:27:21] And then you need to tell these people, yeah. You know, why you don't come to your, stay at home for this thing and then finish it.

[00:27:28] you know, spend focus on that. And then, you know, we see each the next week, you know, and that's, I think the role of the leader is more facilitating all this, making sure that everyone's. It's said the best place to, you know, give their best and to perform as this as, as best as possible, as good as possible and to still feel the connection with the team, which is Very very important. It's key.

[00:27:52] Lech Guzowski: Very very true, very true. And actually talking about the leader, I'd like to bring us back to what we're talking about at the start and the role of the leader. People being promoted based on knowing how to do a job, they get promoted to manage people who do that job now. The misconception that I know you and I both see and both understand is the fact that there is an assumption that the manager needs to know how to perform the job of the person, of the people that are managing.

[00:28:23] As I said, we both disagree. That's a misconception. Right. And I'm fascinated with that concept. And how can managers leaders manage that for themselves step away from that that, that attitude, that behavior what, what do you think about that? How can people do that?

[00:28:38] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: I look, I think that is the more, you know, the better. So it is actually good. It's it's a good thing. You've been there, you know, you did the work and, you know, that saw because that can help you to understand better the other person when she is trying to do the same job. But again, it's not necessarily the same or it's not a hundred percent needed to be very good at something to be a very good leader.

[00:29:03] You know, I think leadership is more about. Maximizing potential individual potential of your team members and combine that into, you know into the whole team and, and try to maximize the potential of your, of your team. So you're seeing each other's talents and, and, and, you know, try to compliment all of those to achieve common goals and shared purpose.

[00:29:27] And, and I think that's the, that's a common, as you said, misconception as well, when you're on the management. Be very good at what people in their team do, but this also, I think it's not the case. You know, the managers are facilitators, are people who are there to support their people, to improve, to learn, to develop and to yes.

[00:29:47] Bring results for the team and the company, but also for themselves. And I think in my opinion, but that's, that's the most important role of a, of a minor, your affiliate. And not that much to know everything about every single role, every part of the job that their team is doing, and then try to make decisions based on that, on the song, because sometimes the best ideas are coming from not from the Maya is actually from, from people within their teams.

[00:30:16] Lech Guzowski: How, how do you think a manager or a leader can instill a build that trust with people that they are managing? If they don't have that experience or that if they don't know how to perform the jobs of the people that they manage, because one thing that I've noticed and come across actually quite often, is that the people who are being managed by someone who doesn't know how to do that job, they don't often does it.

[00:30:42] There's an issue of respect. There's an issue with trust. And common stuff, you know, what does he or she know about the job, nothing. And that, that actually creates a divide between in, in that relationship. What can people in the manager on leadership roles do to help facilitate that process? Instill that trust, build that risk, gain, that respect, I guess, or however else would you describe that?

[00:31:05] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Yeah. So I do believe that's only an issue when the managers of the leaders. Try to basically try to act as if they knew everything about that. Job. Right. But that role instead of being transparent about it, and then from the start, I look, you know, you are much better than myself at doing that. If I had to do Georgia, you know, I probably couldn't do it better, but my role here is to maybe I can support you to even improve that or to get some other skills, you know, and to develop into a, you know, your next role or a different role or into a manager.

[00:31:40] So that's, I think if. From that perspective, if you approach people being vulnerable and transparent and you know, the response is going to be you know, totally the opposite. It's not going to be like, wow, this guy not, well, he told me he doesn't know shit about my role. Right. So, yeah, that's already out of there or a table let's say, and that person will be much more open to work with the leader and to trust the leader because that person was, or that leader was you know, showed peer support and ability.

[00:32:11] And, and it started from that?

[00:32:14] You know that conversation. And I think that that's, I think a way to, to gain that trust and, but showing, being transparent, sharing, you know the reality instead of trying to cover it and inside, try to assume or show up or sorry. Oh, show off. And, and try to show that you are very good at something that you probably are not good at.

[00:32:37] Lech Guzowski: What about, let's assume that the leader does that they showed up on the village vulnerability. They admit that they don't know, but the person that they admitting it to a not in a place they're not prepared. They don't know how to accept that vulnerability. I think they, they would, they need to take that on.

[00:32:55] They need to be able to connect with that and they don't, you know, they don't share that view. They find it difficult to be this vulnerable and connect with this type of vulnerability and go down the route of dismissing it and still that gap is, is that, what can we do then?

[00:33:09] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Well, I think, you know, sometimes you you can't do anything about it, right? It all depends on if this person wants to, to be helped. And and I think the main thing that the leader can show is how. Okay, how can I add value to you when I was leading teams? My previous job before I started on my own my previous company, I was kind of the first thing I told them.

[00:33:33] I said, look, you know my only objective here is that, you know, No matter when maybe I work with, we worked together for two years or for five or four year and a half, but that when, you know, we leave the company and maybe I leave, or maybe you leave. And in 10 years from now in 15 years from now, you look back and you think about me and you say, well, you know, that guy actually helped me to grow and to develop and to learn anyway.

[00:34:02] Right. And that was my role as a leader. So I think that's the, the, the tool or the the secret weapon a leader has they need to show how they can add value to their people. And for some people that value will be something different than from others. Right? So it's, it's just like every unique individual has their own motivations to be working for you for your company or within your team.

[00:34:29] So as a leader, you need to understand what that motivation is, what motivates people to be with you wake up in the morning, come to the office or work remotely. But we're for you or with you, and then?

[00:34:40] think about, okay, how can I add value to this? That's it and for what some people will be about making more money achieving targets and, you know, getting that higher commission and paycheck, but some others would be learning, you know developing some others could be a, to feel safe at work and to feel that trust.

[00:34:57] And then, yeah, that's, that's the thing. What you, your role is again, it's just try to add value to the people you leave and then they will stay with you. They believe in you, and maybe you cannot connect with. People, and that can happen. And I think in that sense, if you try your best and that person tried her best to do the same and there's no connection, and that person doesn't feel that you can add any value to him or her.

[00:35:24] Well, you know, that's when people leave, you know, teams and companies, right. And. You know if that's not the right place for that, if I can not add value to you and you already, my team, well, why we should work together. Right. But my role is just to see, how can I add value to you for the period of time that we work together? I think that's the best approach.

[00:35:44] Lech Guzowski: Fabulous advice. Is this the type of stuff that's going to be in the book that you're writing?

[00:35:48] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Not really.

[00:35:51] Lech Guzowski: a shame you might have to write two books in that case.

[00:35:54] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Maybe I put it for the next one, but now my book is going to be about, mostly about purpose and about uncovering your purpose. So that's, you know yeah, basically most of the work I do is around that and I help companies and teams and leaders to uncover their own purpose and do more things with that.

[00:36:12] So it will be. About that topic of purpose leadership, but not that much into managing teams or leading teams in that sense or, or how to be a good leader, but more about yourself. How, how to identify or know more, have more clarity about your individual purpose in this case.

[00:36:29] Yeah.

[00:36:30] Lech Guzowski: So I'm guessing that's the thing that you're going to be working on the next, in the next few months. Is that a timeline? When this book will hit the shelves?

[00:36:38] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Oh I don't have a, I don't have a clear timeline and I just started, so I, I did also a survey. I sent you the link as well for people to put, to answer that question, but the did you want to be when you grew up and a couple of more, a couple of questions more there. So I started, but but I'm working on it and putting it out there and you know, my posts only thing about this yesterday was basically about the book.

[00:37:02] That's going to help me to, you know, make sure that I, I make some progress and I started, I already started writing it, but but I don't have a clear timeline for that yet, but hopefully sometime next year it will be done and ready to, to be launched. Yeah.

[00:37:16] Lech Guzowski: Just so it's on the record and it's official, it's out in public. I'd like to already apply to be one of the first people who interview you once the book comes out it would be lovely to have you on I've I've I've made the same promise to Sarah because I know she met, she mentioned another book that might be in the pipeline.

[00:37:32] I said the same thing, Sarah. Please hit me up as soon as that's out. I want to be on the, on the calendar. So I'd love to have you on talking about that book for sure. What other things have you got going on the next next few months? Any conferences, any webinars?

[00:37:45] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Yeah. So I'm, I'm doing well regarding conferences. I think the next one is called impact fast, and that's a big one here in the, in the Hague, in the Netherlands. And it's all about, you know impact of, of businesses. So, you know from startups to scale ups, but all companies trying to make the world a better place and you know, it has to do with.

[00:38:07] With a purpose and purpose of even companies, if they're going to be there and I have I'm hosting like a roundabout or they call it like that, but it's kind of like a discussion there on how to help organizations and teams to become more purpose driven. And then I'm working on different projects.

[00:38:23] The book is one I'm also working on the online. Product let's say. So normally what I do with the worst of that half of purpose program that I do with, you know, teams and companies and leaders, but designing one for individuals because I do some coaching individual coaching sometimes to help people to know more about the purpose.

[00:38:41] So I'm gonna convert that into. An online tool for people who want to work on their own with that. And they, you know, they don't need me to, to be there with them real in real life, let's say. So that's another kind of big project. And besides that yeah, working with some companies, I'm still doing some work with. With the same thing, you know either several like theme workshops, Ferris, and combining that with one-on-one sessions, with leadership teams of companies and then another. To basically going from purpose discovery to you know you know, starting with the individual purpose and then purpose alignment with the individual or between the individual, the team purpose and the organization purpose as well.

[00:39:25] So that's yeah, that keeps me busy. Let's say,

[00:39:28] Lech Guzowski: I can imagine. I can imagine if people wants to find out a little bit more about that, the things that you've just mentioned working, where's the best place to, for them to look.

[00:39:34] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Well, they can go to my website, which is called just on-purpose dot com. They can also check my profile on LinkedIn, which I'm. Regularly share content there about purpose and leadership and team work and things of that. And they can connect with me, so a bit of a long name, but and then they will find me quite easily if they do, they write the properly.

[00:39:58] And they can connect with me or follow me, or, you know, of course they can always connect with me if they need to as well. Yeah.

[00:40:04] Lech Guzowski: Thank you very much for taking the time. I know you need to run, so let's wrap it up here. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on. Thank you very much.

[00:40:12] Alberto Gonzalez Otero: Well, thank you. The pressure was mine and yeah, I really hope that you know, these conversation added some value to to your audience and, you know, some people out there. And looking forward to, to be your guests again. When I finished my books, I have some pressure now, so to get work done, but the effects to me, I really enjoyed this conversation.

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